Aitor Arrieta, Katja Khaniukova and Irmgard Berry
In Conversation with Deborah Weiss
December 9th, 2024
Susan Dalgetty-Ezra, chair of the London Ballet Circle, welcomed two talented young dancers, Aitor Arrieta and Katja Khaniukova, to the evening’s In Conversation. Aitor was born in Spain, trained and danced in Madrid, and is now a Lead Principal with English National Ballet (ENB). Katja was born in Kyiv, Ukraine, and trained and danced in her home city before joining ENB, where she is now a First Soloist.
Aitor and Katja will reprise their much acclaimed partnership in Mary Skeaping’s Giselle at the Coliseum in January, and Susan also welcomed to the conversation Irmgard Berry, adviser to choreographer Mary Skeaping’s estate. Finally she welcomed respected critic and dance writer Deborah Weiss, who would lead the conversation for LBC.
Deborah commenced by asking Katja about the many fund-raising activities she was undertaking for her home country of Ukraine. Katja replied that she was doing all she could, travelling back to Kyiv frequently (the last time staying for just four days), performing, organising fundraising galas and taking English dancers to perform in them. She had never expected to have to learn so much about war and its effects; the invasion had very much changed her life and her priorities.
How do you feel when you get back to Ukraine, asked Deborah. You obviously want to see your family, but there must also be some fear? In a sense it is easier when I’m there, Katja replied. There are strong emotions, tensions, constant tiredness among the populace, but at least she is there with her family. Everyone continues to work; her mother is a doctor and always busy. So many are sleep deprived because air attack alerts happen during the night – every night. There are many blackouts when the electricity supply fails. With all of that, Katja is extremely grateful for the massive support offered by her friends and followers in this country, which she now considers to be her second home.
And does this experience make it difficult to get back into the routine of the studio? Katja explained that when actually on stage the role she was portraying was all that mattered to her, and in some ways that was therapeutic. She did, however, believe that her current life was detrimental to her dancing, that all the travelling back and forth must have some impact. In that respect she described herself as being jealous of her former existence when dancing was everything!
Deborah then turned to Aitor, asking him about the new version of The Nutcracker being presented by ENB. He noted that although he was very familiar with Wayne Eagling’s production, having danced it many times, this new version was different in that Katja and he played Clara’s parents during the Christmas party scene, becoming the Sugar Plum Fairy and her Prince for the second act.
Unlike many works there was relatively little emotional build-up to the Grand Pas de Deux which, of course, comes towards the end of the ballet. He commented that there was little ‘proper’ (ie. technically demanding) dancing until this pas de deux and the long wait involved could make it feel more like dancing in a gala rather than a serious classical ballet. For the couple, the Sugar Plum and her Prince, the benefit of that was time could be spent in properly warming up behind the scenes. In that respect touring to the larger theatres, such as Liverpool, where there were bigger stages and more spacious backstage areas was definitely beneficial!
Katja then described her feelings about The Nutcracker. She had also taken part in many performances, having played both Clara and the Sugar Plum Fairy, roles which were totally different. Clara was a bright youngster; it was great to be playing a kid again. Everything was fresh and new for Clara, and she was excited by the party. In many ways it was a priceless role to play. The Sugar Plum was very different. It was a sophisticated part, an extraordinary royal personage, danced in a lovely tutu – and dancing the Sugar Plum was recognised as an achievement in the world of ballet.
She also explained the delight of being able to work with the youngsters from the ballet schools. It is, she said, both a pleasure and an honour to rehearse with them. They love their involvement with the show and the chance to appear on stage with their idols. The young people work so hard and in many ways are often the most professional people in the studio!
Deborah then turned to Irmgard to ask about Mary Skeaping and Giselle; how did she become the guardian of this production? Irmgard replied that she had just completed a course of Benesh notation and was going to run the library in Barons Court when she heard that Mary Skeaping was looking for an assistant to help with a project. She got in touch and was invited to Mary’s flat in Paddington, and it all developed from that meeting.
They started working together on the translation of a 1779 treatise on ballet – or at least Irmgard was working on it, because Mary, even at her somewhat advanced age, was still staging works all over the world. What was intended to last for some three months became more like five years.
Mary Skeaping’s interest in Giselle had been stimulated when she had danced with Anna Pavlova’s company. Both the ballet and the dancer were of enormous importance to Mary and she would talk about them whenever she and Irmgard had a break from the ballet treatise.
Irmgard never worked on Giselle in the studio with Mary but attended many stage calls and performances of Giselle with her, where Mary would talk endlessly about what was wrong onstage – all of which she kept in her head. Over time, she came to understand exactly how Mary wanted the ballet performed. Later, when Mary was in hospital at the end of her life, she asked Irmgard to take over all responsibility for both the book and her ballets. An incredible honour, said Irmgard, although at the time she had not thought Giselle could last as a production without Mary’s direct input. It has, and she loves her involvement in it.
Irmgard said that Mary had been a force to be reckoned with; a tiny woman who knew exactly what she wanted and how to get it from her dancers. Deborah, who during her dancing years had also worked with Mary, agreed – her utterances in the studio could sometimes seem like the dropping of pearls of wisdom! She expressed gratitude that Irmgard was able to pass on the important details and nuances to a new generation of dancers.
Albrecht is a rather different figure in this version, suggested Deborah. A warmer character, still not completely honest but not a total cad. Aitor agreed, he is an impulsive younger man who loves Giselle but will marry Bathilde. It is a dream role to play, with emotions which range from happiness at the start of the ballet to absolute desperation as he stands alone at the end. He explained that he tries to live every moment of the action throughout the show and, although the steps remain the same, he will try to offer something new with each performance.
Deborah commented that it was a very empathetic interpretation. Albrecht comes over as a broken man; full of remorse. It is, said Aitor, a most demanding role both physically and mentally. So how do you feel when you come off stage? Exhausted, he said. Usually after a show he would simply shower and go home; however, where a role has involved intense emotions he may need to just sit still in his dressing room for perhaps twenty minutes to wind down before doing anything else; to become Aitor again.
He also spoke about Akram Khan’s version of Giselle, which he had danced many times – including his first performance of the role just one month after joining ENB! Much more contemporary, he said, but the range of emotions is similar. It was good to be able to perform different versions of the story.
Katja was also asked for her views on this classic work, noting that she had danced in five different versions of Giselle. Mary’s interpretation was extremely detailed and reflected the considerable research she had put into its choreography. Every moment had to have a logical explanation. For example, the manner in which the relationship between the lovers develops has to be demonstrated clearly to the audience, particularly in their first act pas des vendanges. This is the moment at which the shy Giselle shows everyone that she is comfortable with Albrecht and together they show their feelings towards each other.
She agreed with Aitor that every show is different; sometimes she could just ‘melt’ into the role. Her emotions could get all over the place during the course of a run, perhaps dissolving into tears for no apparent reason. After a show she could just sit and stare into space, finding it difficult, if not impossible, to let go of the character. And she might have to force herself to eat properly; maintaining stamina was essential. However, it was always an honour to dance Giselle, and she imagines the awe her ten-year old self would have felt if she had known that one day the role would be hers.
The conversation then turned to Irmgard to explore various aspects of Giselle. For instance, asked Deborah, why did Mary include the rather baroque sounding fugue in the second act? It’s usually been omitted. Irmgard explained that it is in the full 1841 Adam score for the piece, but it had already been taken out when Diaghilev mounted the ballet in the 1900s and reinstated it, getting Fokine to choreograph it. In Mary’s view that music was essential and had a logical place in the story, marking the moment when Myrtha’s power is challenged as she unsuccessfully tries get Albrecht away from the cross and she is continually thwarted from then on.
Myrtha’s solo near the start of Act 2 was also important, although again the complete music for this is rarely used. In Mary’s opinion Myrtha, the Queen, was the most important character in this Act, a view with which both dancers concurred. She must demonstrate her love of dance and the ecstasy which can accompany it; the way she despises men, and the fact that she is assertive and very much in charge. It is essential that Myrtha is built up to be a real character with boundless energy. The first Myrtha in Mary’s production for London Festival Ballet had been Katy Wade; she had then performed the role in the Royal Ballet’s production and found it a breeze after Mary’s challenging version.
They then turned to the virtuoso displays sometimes included, particularly the repeated entrechat six introduced by Rudolf Nureyev and performed by Albrecht in many productions. Mary had apparently said that if Albrecht is to do 32 entrechat six, then why should Giselle not perform 32 fouettés? These were simply party tricks neither necessary nor appropriate for a Romantic ballet. They have no meaning in the story.
Another ‘trick’, mentioned by a member of the audience, were the hops on pointe included in one of Giselle’s Act 1 solos. That solo, said Irmgard, was not in the original, being a later addition in Russia and the music was not by Adam. Again Mary did not want to include this solo, considering it did not fit with the Romantic style of the ballet. Nevertheless, she included it in her original production for Royal Swedish Ballet in order that guest dancers would at least have something already familiar to them. Galina Samsova, the first artist to dance Giselle in London Festival Ballet’s production, pleaded for the solo to be included. But Mary insisted it be danced within the style of the Romantic ballet.
Acting and the use of mime was most important to Mary Skeaping, although she realised that it was sometimes lost along the way. In her opinion mime must have the same dynamics as the actual spoken word. It must be accurate; audiences should be able to interpret its meaning quite clearly even when not familiar with ballet mime. This is especially so in the first act of Giselle where the drama is all-important; possibly more so than the dancing itself.
Particularly in Giselle, but also in any ballet, it is vital that the audience be drawn into the story and not be relatively impassive observers. In response to a later question they all also agreed that the audience should not know what’s coming next; an element of surprise was required. Therefore, preparation for any step or action should be hidden and not telegraphed to the audience.
Returning to the two dancers, they were asked about the challenging nature of their roles in the ballet. Katja responded that her character had to be portrayed without judging Giselle’s choices. She had to remain in character all the time, always remembering when she was a spirit and when human. Last season she had performed three consecutive shows of Giselle; she found that hard and afterwards felt she had ‘given her all’ with no time to recharge.
The company, however, was exceptionally fortunate in that they had Alessandra Ferri in the studio to coach them. Katja had always been star struck by Alessandra and recognised that it had been a real privilege to have her there. She had been so supportive of those she worked with; she understood Katja completely and had urged her not to overthink her approach to the steps.
Aitor agreed that the presence of Alessandra had been amazing; she knew so much not just about dance, but about life itself. For him the most challenging aspect of the ballet was the toll which it took on him physically. At the end of the show Albrecht is supposed to look exhausted and lacking in spirit; that needed little acting, because that’s just how he was feeling. At one point, during a rehearsal, his smart watch had recorded a heart rate of 190-200, telling him to slow down….. Not, he added quickly, that one would want any show to be simply a walk in the park.
In concluding the evening, Susan, chair of the London Ballet Circle, thanked them all, Katja, Aitor, Irmgard and Deborah, most sincerely for taking part in the evening’s conversation. Discussion of Mary Skeaping’s work had been fascinating, and the whole evening had been both extremely interesting and entertaining.
Trevor Rothwell 15-01-24
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